There has been some growing concern over "Traveller" camps and travellers themselves over the past few years. They are synonymous with vandalism, disgusting behavior, conning people, theft, robbery, crime sprees, vandalism, and crime-waves. Oh, lest forget "hallo sir, would ya like your drive tarmakkan?".

I wonder if Miss Jowell will be embracing the diversity they bring to her town...

Here is a link to the article: http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...310472,00.html

And here are a few of the comments left on the article, rather amusing, I must say.

Bloody hell, they are getting further and further afield, aren't they!

Okay, well let's look at that report for a minute and digest what's actually been said.

Oh wait... did that say bought?? And put down paving, no less. I ask you, how many travellers do you think have the money to purchase land (16 plots at 20 grand each) and clean it up ready to settle on? None, that's how many. Romanys - real gypsies - on the other hand, have more money than it appears. They keep their caravans spotless, and they do not destroy the land they live upon, they look after their own and are not to be lumped in with Pikeys, travellers or tinkers.

It sounds to me like they've done everything necessary so far to turn their plot of land into a secure place to live. Travellers on the other hand wouldn't have purchased the land, paved it or put up fences.

Generalised statements like this piss me off.

And yes, Callum, there is such as thing as English Romany - as I said to you last night it means those who are descended from the Romanies but were born and raised here.

We don't have many travelling Romany left in the Nordic countries, a handfull at most live by the old ways, since it seriously suck travelling in late fall, winter, and early spring. But we do several groups of Romany from different regions and Swedish Romany as well. Romany is one of the official cultural minority groups in Sweden.

There aren't many true Romany here any more either. I would imagine this group is wanting to settle for those very reasons, E.

To be honest, I don't know that much about the Romany. Other than the popular version that is perpetrated by the media and popular fiction. There are many cultures that are descendent from nomadic groups. One of the Native American tribes that I can lay claim to was very nomadic.

As such, the power of knowledge compelled me to go Hail Wiki. Below is the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

Unfortunately, as soon as the word "Gypsy" is mentioned, people go mad and start double-locking their doors. I know, and you know that the people synonymous with violence and crime are not the Romany Gypsies who do respect their land and neighbours. Most people have no dealings with Romas, perhaps it is because there are so few in Britain, perhaps it's because people never know they're there, but I know most people have had bad experiences with Travellers and the word often used for them is "Gypsy" (incorrectly, yes, but it's the way things are). Hence, when people say "Gypsy" they automatically assume vandalism, crime, and tarmac. I'm not saying this is right, but I am saying it's something that happens, hence the furor on the Sky News website.

There is also another problem leading to confusion - the Travellers can often mistake themselves for Roma Gypsies - honestly. You brought up the money issues, well, I wouldn't be so sure about the Travellers having nothing. I've seen plenty driving around in brand new vans with large new caravans in tow. I suppose that's what extortion and paying no bloody taxes (even though they use the roads and the NHS like anybody else).

Tread carefully, Callum, your prejudices are showing.

But that's the way things are... why perpetuate an untruth though. Why not try to be correct and not make a sweeping generalization about two very different and diverse groups. It's these little things that make me mad. People will see what they want to see, sometimes to the detriment of reality.

Most people have had bad experiences with Travellers. I'm curious Callum, have you had a bad experience with them? I'm truly not asking this in a snide way. If someone has a bad experience with one person from a particular culture, should that stand out as how all people of said culture are? I think not. If I thought that way, I would likely not be friends with many of the people I call friends.

I was telling Azh in an IM that the Romany culture sounds fascinating to me. But they're such an insular group that not too much outside of the basics is really known. I'm sure that it's a very rich culture that we could all learn from. As I believe to be that cohesive, some regulation and laws must be in place. It's sad that people denigrate that which they really don't know.

I never said that the Travellers are the same as Roma - I just didn't clarify that the article itself was about Roma and not Travellers, but problems do arise due to the fact that people cannot differentiate.

My family and neighbours have, yes. We've had elderly neighbours conned out of money, others have had overpriced and shoddy gardening work completed by them, and we've had some approach us to buy a car we had years ago calling it "scrap". Yes, people have work done by them so I think that they're opening themselves up to being diddled, but you have to remember that the elderly often feel vunerable and merely say "okay" so there is no trouble. Even so, it is no excuse for being arseholes. There was a traveller camp in a field by us and how they left it was truly disgusting, not to mention the peace and quiet being broken by engines revving, motorbikes whirring, shouting and swearing. I've also seen groups of travellers hurling abuse and stones at the police.

People have a problem with the Travellers, not with the Roma Gypsies. People just use the word "Gypsy" for the whole lot. Whether it's right or wrong, it happens, and it leads to confusion.

I personally see no problem with a travelling lifestyle itself (as I'm sure most other people don't), but I do have a problem with the antisocial behaviour quite a few travellers seem to posess. In every group there are arseholes, but it seems the disgusting behaviour some travellers display is rather more documented and displayed than any good they do. Maybe that's the way the media work but those who are respectful don't seem to be doing anything about dispelling the myths and fears the average Briton has.

Indeed it is, I think the most documented part of their culture is how they were rounded up by the Germans and sent to the death camps by that excuse for a man they called Hitler.

http://83.137.212.42/sitearchive/cre.../SCI_09_GT.pdf

There's a link I find interesting. It dispels some myths due to various people's fears and somewhat reassures the people who are not part of their community that Tax etc is paid - but this still does not really address the problem of exactly why Travellers are feared. I'm not racist in any way as most people aren't, however the word "Traveller" seems to now counjour up images of crime. It's not a totally unfounded fear, either. "There's no smoke without fire" springs to mind, however small fires can create lots of black, thick, and poisonous smoke.

From http://www.travellerslaw.org.uk/issues.htm

"It is now estimated that over 30% of the Traveller community live on unauthorised sites, having nowhere to stop they are sometimes forced to occupy public places. Some of these cause great inconvenience for the housed population." I think this most certainly part of the problem, although it isn't just inconvenience, it's intimidation and change.

There is always good and bad, but people tend to remember the bad more than the good. "Once bitten twice shy".