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Old 11-11-2008
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Default Mormon Church Alleged to be Conducting Posthumous Baptism of Jews Killed in Nazi Conc

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Holocaust survivors said Monday they are through trying to negotiate with the Mormon church over posthumous baptisms of Jews killed in Nazi concentration camps, saying the church has repeatedly violated a 13-year-old agreement barring the practice.
Leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints say they are making changes to their massive genealogical database to make it more difficult for names of Holocaust victims to be entered for posthumous baptism by proxy, a rite that has been a common Mormon practice for more than a century.
But Ernest Michel, honorary chairman of the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors, said that is not enough. At a news conference in New York City on Monday, he said the church also must "implement a mechanism to undo what you have done."
"Baptism of a Jewish Holocaust victim and then merely removing that name from the database is just not acceptable," said Michel, whose parents died at Auschwitz. He spoke on the 70th anniversary of Kristallnacht, the Nazi-incited riots against Jews.
"We ask you to respect us and our Judaism just as we respect your religion," Michel said in a statement released ahead of the news conference. "We ask you to leave our six million Jews, all victims of the Holocaust, alone, they suffered enough."
FOXNews.com - Mormon Church Alleged to be Conducting Posthumous Baptism of Jews Killed in Nazi Concentration Camps - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

This isn't the first time the Mormon church has been accused of baptising the dead so they can add them to their family research search engine (which, incidently, is a very useful tool when researching family history!) But I simply don't understand why they have to baptise these (already dead) people before entering them into their database. I don't imagine the dead care much about it, but I think I'd be a little irritated to find my ancestors had been baptised into the mormon church when they were all protestants and catholics - not that I particularly care for either denomination, but that's not the point

This story in particular caught my attention because of the following paragraph:-

Quote:
"They tell me, that my parents' Jewishness has not been altered but ... 100 years from now, how will they be able to guarantee that my mother and father of blessed memory who lived as Jews and were slaughtered by Hitler for no other reason than they were Jews, will someday not be identified as Mormon victims of the Holocaust?" Michel said Monday.
It made me pause for a minute, to be honest. Are the Mormons trying to rewrite history to make themselves look to be the ones who suffered and not the Jews?

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Old 11-11-2008
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Default Re: Mormon Church Alleged to be Conducting Posthumous Baptism of Jews Killed in Nazi

And lo, it came to pass that the evil hitler did send his wrath upon the mormons........

who had obviously shed their thousands of years old jewish belief that they were the chosen of god, to join The mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints....formed in 1830 by a bloke called smith!!!

FFS sake it probably wasnt even his real name....he was probably called Dave and was an accompished con man like a lot of these religious weirdos....that are not in it for the money.....despite their TV appeals that suggest otherwise

No offence to anyone, but religious people are nutcases as they will believe any old rubbish in the vain hope that there will be something there for them after death......

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Old 11-11-2008
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Default Re: Mormon Church Alleged to be Conducting Posthumous Baptism of Jews Killed in Nazi

As you said, Lisa, the LDS genealogy website is a very useful source for us genealogical researchers. I wasn't aware, however, that they made a practice of doing this.

Thinking about it, it would explain something I've noticed. I have found information on the LDS site about numerous ancestors of mine, none of whom were Mormon, as far as I know. (Hell, they were dyed-in-the -wool Southern Baptists and Pentacostals. They would be rolling over in their graves to think that they had been baptized Mormon.)

And yet the LDS site says that genealogical information will only be accepted from or for people who are LDS members. So I guess I had wondered about that. (Not the kind of wondering where I stayed awake at night worrying about it, though.)

Quote:
Posthumous baptism by proxy allows faithful Mormons to have their ancestors baptized into the 178-year-old church, which they believe reunites families in the afterlife.

Using genealogy records, the church also baptizes people who have died from all over the world and from different religions. Mormons stand in as proxies for the person being baptized and immerse themselves in a baptismal pool.
Well, how bizarre. It has always been my understanding that baptism or any other spiritual initiation is a personal matter, something that is done by intent. How could it be done by proxy, without the person even knowing about it?

Would a baptism done under such circumstances even "take"? If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there, does it make a sound?

Seriously, assuming that you believe in spiritual things, such as the "soul" and an afterlife, this feels very violative to me. How could they presume to have the right to impose their beliefs on someone else ... especially if that person is dead and can't speak for himself anymore?

And maybe their ancestors don't want to meet their Mormon descendants in the afterlife. Did they ever think of that? Huh? Did they? Would you want to spend eternity with your great-great-greatgrandchild who turned Mormon 150 years after you died?

I guess whatever works for them to feel good. We make it all up, and this is proof.




(P.S. The writer in me is seeing the premise for a great story in this. )

"Set a new course. There's coffee in that nebula." -- Capt. Janeway, Star Trek: Voyager

Last edited by Kitty; 11-11-2008 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 11-11-2008
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Default Re: Mormon Church Alleged to be Conducting Posthumous Baptism of Jews Killed in Nazi

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Originally Posted by Kitty View Post


Seriously, assuming that you believe in spiritual things, such as the "soul" and an afterlife, this feels very violative to me. How could they presume to have the right to impose their beliefs on someone else ... especially if that person is dead and can't speak for himself anymore?

And maybe their ancestors don't want to meet their Mormon descendants in the afterlife. Did they ever think of that? Huh? Did they? Would you want to spend eternity with your great-great-greatgrandchild who turned Mormon 150 years after you died?

I guess whatever works for them to feel good. We make it all up, and this is proof.




(P.S. The writer in me is seeing the premise for a great story in this. )

well presuming there is some form of afterlife, and presuming theyd actually let me in, which is doubtful......if a bloody mormon baptises me into their church and I couldnt come back to haunt them, when they died they'd get a shock as i'd be waiting for them at the gates.....

I mean lets look at it a different way, and presume that each belief system has its own afterlife.....muslims to to their heaven, christians to another, and im sitting there in pagan heaven having a nice cup of tea, and some mortal bastard rebaptises me....yanks me out of pagan heaven and shove me into mormon heaven with a bunch of uptight stuffy buggers, i'd not be a happy bunny as there would be sod all I could do about it as Id be dead.....so they'd be taking away the personal choices I made and condeming me to an afterlife not of my choosing....so when the tossbag arrived in mormon heaven himself, id make his afterlife a bloody misery......lol

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